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- If you are a Freeza > base Saiyajin supporter...
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| If you are a Freeza > base Saiyajin supporter... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 8 2018, 08:54 AM (2,467 Views) | |
| Dingo | Jun 9 2018, 12:29 PM Post #61 |
 
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I think I'll contribute with this statement: Freeza = base Saiyajin Out of 100 battles Freeza would lose roughly 50 times and vise versa. |
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Wisdom Wisdom Pack
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| Topographic Oceans | Jun 9 2018, 12:36 PM Post #62 |
 
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Finally... the fuller picture. |
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| + Son-Goku | Jun 9 2018, 03:27 PM Post #63 |
孫悟空
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Cell wins |
 RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power | |
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| Mike XL | Jun 9 2018, 05:12 PM Post #64 |
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Oh boy, this new and exciting thread again. I'm sure new opinions and points of view will be revealed, and not the same crap that has been going back and forth on message boards all over the internet for the past 20 years. |
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| Evil Vegeta | Jun 11 2018, 07:29 PM Post #65 |
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Figure I'd add my 2 cents. There's that Kaioshin quote where he stated he didn't think he'd win against Goku, though he was interested in seeing how strong he was. If he was aware of (and he should be, but knowing this arc, lol) Goku's ability to become a Super Saiyan, logically he'd be taking that into consideration when making that statement. So when it comes to Kaioshin's assessment: Once Vegeta displayed his power a bit later, Kaioshin was flabbergasted. The problem is that: “Th-that can’t be…Th-they’re this [strong]…” wouldn't make sense in general since he sensed Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. He already knows what Gohan is capable of, and he already has a hint about Goku. I think if the statement looked like: “Th-that can’t be…Th-they’re this [strong]…without transforming...” Kaioshin's statement would flow much better. At the end of the day, I don't believe the Base Saiyans are above Kaioshin or Piccolo. I just don't know if they're weaker than Freeza. That sorta reaction makes Vegeta appear to be quite powerful in Base, which was well after Kaioshin's statement on Freeza. But as usual, it's Kaioshin...so grain of salt. |
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| Thiln | Jun 11 2018, 11:09 PM Post #66 |
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You have to take the statements with a grain of salt. I personally don't consider Shin to be inferior in relation to the Super Saiyans and you could even make argument for him posing a conceivable threat to the SSJ2s. How you might ask? Simple, it's the thing which Toriyama's mind can't seem to eloquently articulate on paper and with ink - magic. Buu arc Base Saiyans being stronger than Freeza has some good arguing points. On the other hand, you could also forge some counteractive rebuttals to try and demonstrate how they might be weaker. Personally, I think at the very least, Goku is superior to Freeza using just Kaioken - even taking into account Beerus' statement (who didn't know about Kaioken at the time). |
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| Evil Vegeta | Jun 12 2018, 06:59 PM Post #67 |
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I always thought about how Kaioshin compared to the Saiyans in all forms. Super Saiyan is an interesting one. Kaioshin thought Yakon required all of them to attack, but when Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan, his reaction wasn't shown. After transforming again, Kaioshin called him stupid for not fighting as a team. With Yakon having no detectable Chi, he probably assumed Goku was still inferior, or not strong enough to handle Yakon alone. The brief demonstration by Super Saiyan 2 Goku seemed to be the level of power that convinced Kaioshin that he was minuscule in comparison to the mortals. Going by that alone, I could see how one can reach the conclusion that Super Saiyan 2 is when he was thoroughly surpassed. Then you have Kaioshin quickly getting out of the way when Super Saiyan Goku was ready to blast him. Of course someone could say the fact that he was aware Goku could attain even greater power might've been his reason to step-down. I tend to just go with the explanation that he moved aside because he knew fighting each other would've already made the situation worse than it already was. There's also the Gohan/Dabra stuff. As long as Kaioshin is above Base Saiyans, I feel like he's not entirely pathetic. |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 12 2018, 08:42 PM Post #68 |
 
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Considering Yeast Kaioshin outright admitted SSJ2 Gohan had incredible power and gushed about the Boo egg encounter to Kibito, it's safe to say he's nowhere near the Super Saiyan 2s ki-wise. With magic, potentially he could put up a fight, but we're talking raw power here, baby. Besides, Kaioshin got worried about Base Goku. Yakon's slash happened before Goku transformed. |
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| Thiln | Jun 13 2018, 01:03 AM Post #69 |
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Shin's greatest weakness is that his conduct and actions were dictated by the whims of a choreographically mechanical artist. You have these demonstrably proven abilities which should have provided an invaluable asset in fighting and yet Shin is fretting over some feeble enemies whom the Saiyans in their untransformed states are capable of making short work of - even stating that their chances for victory are now up in the air at best with the emergence of Dabura. It's like - are you intentionally overlooking the psychic abilities you used to immobilise an SSJ2 and the kiai blast that can dissipate an attack capable of killing an SSJ with just one manoeuvre or are you just daft, sir? It's one thing to remain cautious when confronted by enemies whom you're unable to ascertain the ki amounts of. It's another to just gawk dully at every flashy spectacle that fighters at inferior levels exhibit. Maybe the assumption that Toriyama had decided to alter Kaioshin's character somewhere between the 25th tournament and Babidi arcs is accurate. At the martial arts competition, Shin appeared much more reticent and dignified with an air of enigmatic uncertainty circling around him. Individuals and power emissions failed to rile him up so easily like they did later on once they reached Babidi's ship; not even an SSJ2 prompted him to retract a step and sputter like an ill-informed novice. Try contrasting this with the eventual finalised interpretation of the character who is painted as an inept doofus who seems to be surprised at every turn and his plans end up backfiring all of the time. It's depressing because Shin does possess a lot of good potential both as a character and as a warrior. I would even be willing to admit that the tournament rendition of Shin is one of the my top 10 favourite characters because of his ambiguous personality, mystical aesthetics, and unique style of fighting. Perhaps if he had been in the hands of someone who knew how to properly write for a character of his particular style and methods he would be looked upon more fondly. Edited by Thiln, Jun 13 2018, 01:05 AM.
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